# Keeping it casual: conversations, not meetings > When your calendar fills up with hour-long “interviews” that make people perform: how to switch to informal customer interviews, spot formality, match the length to the goal, say little about the idea and learn in five-minute chats. - Course: [Customer Development: Talking to Customers](https://productovi.com/courses/customer-interviews.md) - Module: Asking what matters - Lesson 9/15, ~40 min - Source: https://productovi.com/courses/customer-interviews/keeping-it-casual ## The calendar **Alex Tutor:** CatChow's subscription needs more evidence, so you've been filling your calendar with interviews for the product team. **Sofia:** I've scheduled twelve customer interviews for the next two weeks. An hour each, a calendar invite, a short intro deck. Only five have accepted so far. **Alex Tutor:** How long does one of those really take you? **Sofia:** Let me count. Emails and rescheduling, about an hour. Prep, half an hour. The call itself, an hour. Notes, another half hour. So three hours each. **Alex Tutor:** Twelve times three is thirty-six hours: almost a working week. And the questions you actually need answered take five minutes each. ![A one-hour interview really costs three hours: emails, prep, the call and notes. Twelve invites take 36 hours, while each question you need takes about five minutes.](https://productovi.com/courses/customer-interviews/diagrams/m3-l3-meeting-cost.png) **Alex Tutor:** That's the **meetings anti-pattern**: turning every chance to talk into a slot in the calendar. It eats time, makes people expect a product demo, and makes you skip chats that happen on their own. ![A person sits buried behind a tall stack of calendar invites and ticking clocks, sighing.](https://productovi.com/courses/customer-interviews/inline/keeping-it-casual-illustration-2.webp) > **Exercise:** Sofia's twelve one-hour interviews will cost her about 36 hours. Where do the extra 24 hours come from? ## What casual looks like **Alex Tutor:** Now tell me about Saturday. You said something happened at the pet shop. **Sofia:** I bumped into Olivia at the checkout. She was buying two bags of food, so I said hi and asked about it. **Olivia:** Oh, I always take two now. Last month this shop had none of Whiskers's food for a whole week, and he wouldn't touch anything else. Never again. **Sofia:** Four minutes by the till, and I learned more than in our hour-long call. A stock-out, a fussy cat, a new habit. **Alex Tutor:** That's **keeping it casual**. No invite, no “interview”, no deck. She wasn't performing, she was just telling you about her month. ![At a pet-shop checkout, two people chat easily while one holds two cat-food bags and the cashier smiles behind the till.](https://productovi.com/courses/customer-interviews/inline/keeping-it-casual-illustration-3.webp) *A few minutes by the till, no invite, no script.* > **Exercise:** Sofia's four-minute chat at the checkout doesn't count as a customer conversation, because it wasn't planned and she never called it an interview. ## Symptoms of formality **Sofia:** Here's how I opened the scheduled call with Olivia last week: “Thank you for agreeing to this interview. It'll take about an hour. First, on a scale of 1 to 5, how satisfied are you with CatChow?” **Olivia:** Oh, a proper interview! Um… a four, I suppose? I hope my answers will be useful to you. **Alex Tutor:** Hear it? She's performing. “I hope my answers will be useful” means she thinks she's doing you a favour. If it feels like a favour, it's too formal. ![A customer sits stiffly under a spotlight facing a person with a clipboard and a row of rating stars.](https://productovi.com/courses/customer-interviews/inline/keeping-it-casual-illustration-4.webp) **Sofia:** What else gives it away? **Alex Tutor:** Thanking them for the “interview”, promising to take “just a few minutes of your time”, rating scales, a questionnaire, a slide deck. Each one says: this is a test, give good answers. > **Exercise:** Which of these lines are symptoms of a conversation that has become too formal? Select all that apply. ## How long should it take? **Sofia:** So are long conversations always bad? **Alex Tutor:** No. Match the length to what you're learning. Whether a problem exists and matters: about five minutes. How they handle it now and what they've tried: ten to fifteen. **Alex Tutor:** Understanding a whole industry, say how pet food gets from factory to shelf, can take an hour or more. That's when a longer, planned conversation with an expert makes sense. **Sofia:** And when do I send a real calendar invite? **Alex Tutor:** When you have something concrete to show or ask for, like a prototype or pre-order terms. Keep that meeting to about thirty minutes, and end it with agreed next steps. That's module 4. > **Exercise:** Match each learning goal to a sensible length of conversation. ## Say little about the idea **Sofia:** But in a casual chat people ask why I'm so curious. What do I say? **Alex Tutor:** The truth, briefly: “I work at CatChow, we're trying to understand how people buy food.” Then straight back to them. No subscription, no deck. **Sofia:** Isn't that hiding something? **Alex Tutor:** No, it's true, just not a pitch. Give as little as possible about the idea while still steering the chat somewhere useful. The idea can come at the end, if it comes at all. **Sofia:** So after Olivia's story about the empty shelf, my next line matters a lot. > **Exercise:** Olivia has just said the shop had none of Whiskers's food for a week. Which reply keeps the chat casual and useful? ## When you do need to ask for time **Sofia:** Some people I can't just bump into. Like Victor, who runs pet-food buying for a chain of twenty shops. **Alex Tutor:** Show me your invitation. **Sofia:** “Dear Mr Miller, CatChow invites you to take part in a 60-minute research interview about our new subscription service. Please choose a slot below.” **Alex Tutor:** Before I say anything: which parts of it would you change? > **Exercise:** Sofia's invitation to Victor: “Dear Mr Miller, CatChow invites you to take part in a 60-minute research interview about our new subscription service. Please choose a slot below.” Which parts make it too formal or give away too much? Select all that apply. **Alex Tutor:** An hour, the word “interview” and the idea in the first line. Ask for less: fifteen minutes, one topic he cares about, the way you'd ask a colleague. **Sofia:** So: fifteen minutes, one topic, and no product? **Alex Tutor:** And a reason he'd care, like something you've noticed about how shops buy food. **Sofia:** I'd still say I'm from CatChow, though. **Alex Tutor:** Of course. Honest about who you are, quiet about the idea. Now rewrite it. **Alex Tutor:** Before you write, compare two drafts. Which one would you send? > **Exercise:** Two drafts of Sofia's message to Victor, who runs pet-food buying for twenty shops. Which one is more likely to get a short, honest conversation? > **Exercise:** Victor runs pet-food buying for a chain of twenty shops. Sofia's draft invitation: “Dear Mr Miller, CatChow invites you to take part in a 60-minute research interview about our new subscription service. Please choose a slot below.” Rewrite it as a short, casual message that doesn't reveal the subscription. ## Casual inside the company **Megan:** Can I say something? My sales managers groan when product asks for a “stakeholder interview”. Last time it was an hour of slides and a survey. **Alex Tutor:** Colleagues and existing customers are the easiest people to talk to casually, and we formalise them the most. **Sofia:** So instead of booking the sales team, I could just join their Monday stand-up for five minutes and ask one question? **Alex Tutor:** Yes. Or sit with the support team for an hour and listen to real customer calls. Or ask one of your three when a customer phones about a late delivery. **Megan:** Five minutes at the stand-up, my team would love that. > **Exercise:** Sofia wants to learn what existing CatChow customers complain about most. Which approach fits the lesson best? ## Ready for chance meetings **Sofia:** Next Saturday CatChow has a stand at the pet expo. Hundreds of cat owners in one hall. **Alex Tutor:** Perfect for casual chats. No forms and no clipboard. Your three big questions on your phone, one or two per chat. **Sofia:** And I write notes after each one, not during? **Alex Tutor:** Right after, while the exact words are fresh. A dozen five-minute chats can teach you more than a week of formal interviews. **Alex Tutor:** Let's check the expo plan. > **Exercise:** At the pet expo, how should Sofia capture what cat owners tell her? **Sofia:** One more worry: how do I even start a chat with a stranger at a stand? **Alex Tutor:** Ride on something already happening: what they're holding, what they've just asked the seller. **Sofia:** And then go straight to one of my three? **Alex Tutor:** Gently, through their story. Try it on this one. > **Exercise:** At the expo, a woman stops at a stand nearby and picks up a big bag of prescription diet food. Write Sofia's casual opening line and one follow-up question. ## Rethinking the plan **Sofia:** So what do I do with my twelve invites? **Alex Tutor:** Keep one or two where a longer talk really makes sense. Replace the rest with chats in places where cat owners already are. **Sofia:** And the intro deck? **Alex Tutor:** Save it for when you have something to show. > **Exercise:** Turn Sofia's interview plan into a plan for casual conversations. ## What to remember **Sofia:** I've cancelled nine invites. It feels like I've just freed up a week. **Alex Tutor:** You have. Spend it where the cat owners are. > **Keeping it casual** > > - Don't turn every chance to talk into a meeting: a one-hour slot costs you several hours. > - Short chats where people already are beat formal interviews. > - Symptoms of formality: “interview”, “just a few minutes of your time”, rating scales, decks. If it feels like a favour, it's too formal. > - About 5 minutes to see if a problem matters, 10–15 to learn how it's handled, an hour for an industry deep dive. > - Say as little about the idea as you can while steering the chat. > - Schedule a meeting when there's something concrete to show; keep it to about 30 minutes. **Alex Tutor:** In module 4 we'll look at what to ask for at the end of a conversation, so the nice words turn into real commitments. - Previous lesson: [3 big questions and a discussion guide](https://productovi.com/courses/customer-interviews/three-big-questions.md) - Next lesson: [Commitment currencies and early adopters](https://productovi.com/courses/customer-interviews/commitment-currencies.md) --- Productovi Learning. Free, no sign-up needed to read.